Craps Vs Crapless Craps
- Craps Vs Crapless Craps Practice
- Craps Vs Crapless Craps Game
- Craps Vs Crapless Craps Vs
- Craps Vs Crapless Craps Free
- House Edge (pass line + sgl. Odds) Crapless Craps = 2.936%. Hardly 'not that much worse,' IMHO. Crapless Craps is heavy for the house like a ton of bricks. And as for not losing much making $5.00 or $10.00 bets - you can only loose ALL your money! Personally, I'll take my play elsewhere.
- Wanna know how craps pros win at Crapless Craps? One of the worst bets now is the pass line bet (5.3% casino edge), so this should be avoided at all costs. The standard 6 and 8 place bets is still there, same as in a regular craps game. A lot of people just play that and get along fine.
In crapless craps though, you could just cover every single number and you're guaranteed what I call a 'pure win' as long as you don't roll a 7. No the chance of a 7 on any 1 roll is 6/36 or about 16.67%. Re: Crapless craps Post by Ahigh » Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:44 am Going back to the poster's original question, from my recorded rolls (3400 of them) here is the BEST CASE theoretical edge using various sets for various goals.
Since the Stratosphere video came out, people have been asking ‘what is Crapless Craps’?
Before I begin, I will assume that the reader already understands and knows how to play craps, i.e, ‘traditional’ craps aka ‘craps’. If you do not know how to play craps, then forget crapless craps for a moment. Go binge watch all my YouTube videos, ask me some questions here on RoadGambler.com (I respond), and then come back for Crapless Craps.
Also, for the sake of clarity, anytime I mention the word ‘craps’ by itself, I am referring to the traditional game.
Let’s discuss Crapless Craps!
WHAT IS CRAPLESS CRAPS?
Crapless Craps is a variant of craps that plays exactly like traditional craps, but with the following rule change:
- On the Come Out roll, 2, 3, 11, and 12 are not natural winners or losers, rather, they become the point.
- If the 2 rolled on the Come Out in craps, the player would lose; but in Crapless Craps, if the Come Out roll is 2, then the 2 is the point. The player would then need to roll the 2 to win, and the 7 would lose.
- If the 3 rolled on the Come Out in craps, the player would lose; but in Crapless Craps, if the Come Out roll is 3, then the 3 is the point. The player would then need to roll the 3 to win, and the 7 would lose.
- If the 12 rolled on the Come Out in craps, the player would lose; but in Crapless Craps, if the Come Out roll is 12, then the 12 is the point. The player would then need to roll the 2 to win, and the 7 would lose.
- If the 11 rolled on the Come Out in craps, the player would win; but in Crapless Craps, if the Come Out roll is 11, then the 11 is the point. The player would then need to roll the 11 to win, and the 7 would lose.
The 2, 3, 11, and 12 are now point numbers, referred to as the ‘extreme outside’ numbers.
One other difference is that there is no dark side betting in Crapless Craps; meaning there is no Don’t Pass or Don’t Come, and the player may not lay odds or bet against.
All other rules remain the exact same, meaning that on a come out roll, the 7 is a natural winner.
All differences between Crapless Craps and craps are from the above singular rule change.
This rule change also means that the pass line and come bets have a house edge of 5.382% (citation, Wizard of Odds) versus 1.41% for traditional craps.
I will now explain the differences that result from the rule change.
If a craps rule is not mentioned below, then the rule remains the same from traditional craps to Crapless craps. For example, place bets of 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 are not mentioned, thus those place bets are unchanged. Same goes for field bets, hardways 4, 6, 8, and 10 are not mentioned, those bets remain the same from traditional craps to Crapless Craps.
HOW CRAPLESS CRAPS IS PLAYED
Crapless Craps is played exactly like traditional craps, with the difference that when a 2, 3, 11, or 12 is rolled on the come out, the dealers will now mark the point of 2, 3, 11, or 12.
Witness the board, with the 2, 3, 11, and 12 as the ‘box’ numbers…
In the pic below, 12 is the point.
If the point is 2, 3, 11, or 12 the player may then take odds bets on those points. Odds bets on those points are subject to the same minimum and maximum as traditional craps. I have never been to a casino where the odds from craps were different from Crapless Craps. At the El Dorado casino in Shreveport, Louisiana, the craps tables and the Crapless Craps tables all have 100x odds. Discussion of the odds bets will follow.
In addition to taking odds on the 2, 3, 11, and 12, the player may also bet the 2, 3, 11, or 12. Discussion of the place bets will follow.
THE CRAPLESS CRAPS ODDS BET
Craps Vs Crapless Craps Practice
If the point is 2, 3, 11, or 12, the player may take the following odds, subject to the table maximum.
- Point is 2 or 12
- Pay off for a win is 6-1, meaning for $100 bet, the player will win $600.
- There are six ways to lose and only one way to roll a winner, thus 6-1.
- For example, if point is 2 then the losing combinations are 1+6, 6+1, 2+5, 5+2, 3+4, and 4+3 (six ways), while the only possible winning combination is 1+1 (one way). The similar condition for the 12, in which the only winner is 6+6.
- Point is 3 or 11
- Pay off for a win is 3-1 meaning for $100 bet, the player will win $300.
- There are six ways to lose and two ways to roll a winner, thus 6-2, i.e., 3-1.
- For example, if point is 3 then the losing combinations are 1+6, 6+1, 2+5, 5+2, 3+4, and 4+3 (six ways), while the only possible winning combinations are 1+2 and 2+1 (two ways). The similar condition for the 11, in which the winning combinations are 5+6 and 6+5.
Similar to craps, the player may also take the same odds bets on the come bet if the 2, 3, 11, or 12 rolls.
The odds bet pays true odds. The only caveat is that the player must make a pass line or come bet to take advantage of the odds bet.
THE CRAPLESS CRAPS PLACE BETS AND BUY BETS
Craps Vs Crapless Craps Game
The player may also make place bets on the 2, 3, 11, and 12.
- Place bet of 2 or 12
- Pay off for a win is 11-2, meaning for $100 bet, the player will win $550.
- The house edge with the place bet of 2 or 12 is 7.143% (citation, Wizard of Odds)
- Point is 3 or 11
- Pay off for a win is 11-4 meaning for $100 bet, the player will win $275.
- The house edge with the place bet of 3 or 11 is 6.25%.
As a reminder, all other place bets in Crapless Craps are exactly the same as traditional craps.
Due to the high place house edge on the place bets, RoadGambler recommends avoiding place bets on the 2, 3, 11, 12.
The wiser way to play the 2, 3, 11, and 12, if the player would like ‘extreme outside’ action is to buy the 2, 3, 11, or 12. If the player buys the extreme outside numbers, the player must pay a 5% commission, but will then receive a true odds payout. Most casinos, according to my experience, charge commission as soon as the player makes the bet.
- Buy bet of 2 or 12
- Pay off for a win is 6-1, meaning for $100 bet, the player will win $600.
- Commission is $5 for $100 bet. Thus the player will pay a net $595 versus $550 on a place bet of 2 or 12.
- Thus, by risking an additional $5 upfront, the player will win an additional $45 net.
- House edge on the typical ‘pay upfront’ scheme is 4.76% (citation, Wizard of Odds)
- Point is 3 or 11
- Pay off for a win is 3-1, meaning for $100 bet, the player will win $300.
- Commission is $5 for $100 bet. Thus the player will pay a net $295 versus $275 on a place bet of 3 or 11.
- Thus, by risking an additional $5 upfront, the player will win an additional $20 net.
- House edge on the typical ‘pay upfront’ scheme is 4.76% (citation, Wizard of Odds)
RoadGambler advice: RoadGambler recommends that the player should avoid place bets on the 2, 3, 11, 12, and instead buy those numbers, if the player wants extreme outside action without pass line or come betting.
FINAL ADVICE
Just avoid playing Crapless Craps. Seriously. I know that might not be the advice you want to hear, but that’s genuine and real advice. I’ve never been to a casino where the only craps option was Crapless Craps; every single casino that has Crapless Craps has traditional craps as the main option (if any reader knows of a casino that has only the Crapless Craps option, please let me know).
Craps Vs Crapless Craps Vs
I love testing out carnival games and playing all sorts of weird casino games, and I play them out of curiosity. Sometimes, I’ll prefer the carnival variation of a game over the traditional game, such as Commission Free Pai Gow Poker. However, in a variant such as Commission Free Pai Gow Poker, the house edge is 2.51%, which is nearly identical to traditional Pai Gow Poker.
Craps Vs Crapless Craps Free
The disparity in the house edge for Crapless Craps and traditional craps is just too high. Giving up the 11 winner on a come out is just too much give up. On a point of 2, 3, and 12, even though the player might not lose his bet immediately, the long shot of repeating those points does not make up for the change of the 11 on the come out.
However, if you insist on playing Crapless Craps over traditional craps, here is some advice on how to play it effectively:
- Make sure that the casino rates you higher than if you played traditional craps. Many casinos will rate you on the Crapless Craps pass line and come bets like you are playing traditional craps. For a traditional craps game, earned comp rates on pass line bets are very low because the house edge is low. The earned comp rate for Crapless Craps should be similar to roulette.
- You can figure this out by playing regular craps and asking for your comp rate during your session play, and then when you move to the Crapless table, play for the same period of time, making the same bets, and asking for your comp rate. The Crapless comp rate should be significantly higher than traditional craps.
- Play a high variance game based on hit and run. Hit and run has the advantage in that, while it will not change the house edge, it reduces the number of hands played. You cannot lose money while you are away from the table and walking around the casino.
- Stick to the normal craps type bets, and try to ignore playing the extreme outside numbers unless the chance to bet the extreme outside number is through the odds bet. You will be tempted to place or buy the extreme outside, when the inevitable day comes that the extreme outside numbers are repeatedly rolling. Do not fall for the gambler’s fallacy.
- Do not be afraid to take as much odds as you are comfortable with on the extreme outside numbers. The extreme outside odds bets pay true odds and this will significantly reduce the house edge.
I hope this Crapless Craps guide helped you understand the game. If you have any questions or comments, please feel free to leave them in the comments section below.
Posted in: Casino, Craps, Gambling
Crapless Craps You may have run across it at the Stratosphere in Vegas.Or was on some backwater boat in Mississippi?Or maybe it was at that Indian casino you visited on vacation.It’s called Crapless Craps.Many players like this game, yet after thirty years on the market, Crapless Craps is still difficult to find.Why?Primarily because it is a proprietary game, which means casinos must pay a licensing fee to use the layout.But there’s also a certain amount of player - and casino - reluctance to accept the game.Part of this comes out of confusion over the payout schedules - still another set of numbers for dealers and players to learn.Then there’s the vig – substantially higher than at the traditional game.Nevertheless, Crapless Craps can be a profitable game for the skilled dice setter who plays the “best bets”, then arranges his dice accordingly. The basic Crapless Craps game is quite similar to traditional banker’s craps, however it does have a few unique variations.First off, there’s the addition of four new point numbers.The 2, 3, 11, and 12 are point numbers in this game.Since it is “crapless,” you cannot lose on the come out roll.But you don’t automatically win on the eleven either, so the only way to win on the come out is by throwing the seven.Traditionally, the best set for throwing the seven is the hard 10 set with the 3/4 on the side.But we’ll get into this more later. At first glance the Crapless idea looks good.You’re giving up one natural, the 11,to avoid three losers, the 2, 3, or 12.Remember, though, that the probability of hitting a point of 2 or 12 is only 1/7, and the probability of hitting a point of 3 or 11 is only 1/4.In fact, giving up that sure winner on the eleven for a shot at winning on the 2, 3, and 12 boosts the house edge on the pass line to a whopping 5.382%.Placing single odds will reduce the vig to 2.936%.Double odds reduces it further to 2.081%.But it is not until you get to 5X odds that the vig gets halfway respectable – down to 1.042%.However, most of these games offer nothing better than double odds.Therefore, the pass line bet should be avoided unless you are shooting the dice. Let’s take a look at the true odds aspect of these “new” point numbers at Crapless Craps.The true odds of any point rolling are based on the number of ways that point can be rolled in relationship to the number of ways the seven can be rolled.Imaging you have $5 on the line and the shooter establishes the twelve as his point.You place full double odds behind the line bet and have a total of $15 in action.What would be the correct pay off if the shooter made the point?There is one combination of the dice that adds up to twelve.The six-six.But there are six combinations that add up to seven.They are one-six, two-five, three-four, four-three, five-two, and six-one.Therefore, the correct true odds on the twelve are six to one.In our example, if the shooter made his point we would be paid $5 for our line bet, and $60 for our $10 free odds bet, for a total payoff of $65. TRUE ODDS PAY-OFF FOR CRAPLESS CRAPS
As you can see from the above chart, if the three or eleven is established as the point, the correct true odds payoff is three to one.Using the same example as above, a five dollar line bet with double odds would pay a total of $35, five for the line bet and thirty for the free odds bet.The rest of the numbers pay the same as in a traditional game.Sounds good, right?But remember, the elimination of the eleven as a natural increases the vig in this game.A pass line or come bet with double odds carries a toll of2.081% compared to 0.60% in the traditional game.Again, the line bet should be avoided until it’s your time to shoot the dice.Still, you should know the correct pay-off for those times when you are shooting the dice.This will also come into play with your buy bets - which we will get into later. Now let’s take a look at place betting for Crapless Craps.Obviously, the traditional 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, and 10 bets are played – and paid exactly the same as in a standard game.The vig on these bets is no different than what you are used to.The major difference in this game comes with the placing of the “extreme outside” numbers, the 2, 3, 11, and 12.The pay off odds for place bets on these numbers is as follows: EXTREME OUTSIDE PLACE BET ODDS As with the five and nine – you must bet an even amount of money to get a correct pay off on the extreme outside numbers.On a five dollar table the minimum correct bet on the two or twelve would be six dollars.For a correct pay off on the three and eleven you would place eight dollars.Placing an incorrect amount will result in a reduced payoff, which increases the already considerable vig.The11:2 payoff on the 2 and 12 yields a house edge of7.143%.The 3 and 11 run a close second with an edge of6.250%.That is why most veteran players “buy” the extreme outside just as they would the four and ten. A Buy bet is similar to a Place bet except that you pay a 5% commission up-front in exchange for receiving a true payoff if it wins. The commission is based on the amount wagered. For example, if you wanted to make a $20 Buy bet on the number 11, you'd put down $21 in the Come area and tell the dealer 'Buy the 11'. He or she will move $20 to the number 11 point box and place a BUY button on top it. The extra $1 (5% of $20) is the vig for the house. The result is that you'll win $60 (3:1) instead of $55 (11:4) for a place bet in the same amount.If your bet wins and you want to keep it up, you'll have to pay the dealer another $1 commission. The vig is returned if you remove the bet before it wins or loses. Let’s review the best bets in Crapless Craps.Number one on the list is placing the six and eight - with a vig of 1.51%.Next on the list is the pass line with double odds - which carries a vig of 2.08%.Last of all is pushing the house for a better buy on the extreme outside numbers - which can get the vig as low as 2.56%.Now let’s move on to the basic Crapless dice setting and betting strategy. A strategy for players with less bankroll to work with might be to place the extreme outside numbers for $6 and $8 each, then buy them out of the payoff on the first hit.However, the vig on this bet is substantially higher than on the buy bet.Whenever possible, it is best to pay the additional $12 plus the commission for a correct payoff.Remember, too, that money management is the cornerstone of any good betting strategy.With that in mind, plan to incorporate at least one regression move in your play, with an eye toward locking up a small win or minimizing potential losses.But any good strategy should focus on signature numbers for the dice arrangement to be used. Since the game is “crapless,” on the come-out roll you want your best shot at hitting a seven – or establishing a point of 2, 3, 6, 8, 11 or 12.The recommended arrangement for these numbers is the hard-ten set – the 5-5 up, the 6-6 and 1-1 facing up and down table, the 3-4 on the sides.When rolled on axis, four out of sixteen possible combinations of the dice add up to seven, four combinations yield the six or eight, while six out of sixteen combinations add up to an extreme outside number.That’s one way to make the two or twelve, and two ways to make the three or eleven.If you score a seven on the come-out roll – great.If you get up on any of our favored points – that’s great, too.You’ll want to play maximum free odds behind your line bet in order to reduce the vig and take advantage of the huge potential payoffs on these numbers.But once the point is established you should change your set for the balance of your roll. Assuming you are successful in establishing one of your preferred points, the correct dice set is one you are all familiar with by now - the crossed-sixes.In this arrangement, one die has the 3-4 on the sides, and the other has the 5-2 on the sides.Rolled on axis, this set reduces the number of combinations that add up to seven from four to two.You have one way each to make the two, three, eleven and twelve, plus two ways each to make the six and eight.That’s a total of eight ways to win versus two ways to lose on the seven. So next time you’re at Sam’s Town in Tunica, The Isle of Capri in Kansas City, or yes, even the Stratosphere in Vegas – step up to the old Crapless game, wait for the dice, put five on the line and give it a whirl.With a little luck and a lot of skill – it might be the most fun you’ve ever had shooting dice. Copyright 2001 by Stephen Haltom - all rights reserved. |